Is EPA Deregulation going to put money in your pocket?

The guys discuss the new EPA deregulations in the US. Does this help or hurt the diesel and gas vehicle repair, sales, and customizing industry? Let us know what you think. 

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Transcript

Transcript

Announcer

You're listening to the Get Out N Drive podcast fueled by AMD with your hosts, John @CustomCarNerd Meyer and Jason @OldCarrGuy Carr. We'll be bringing you gearheads everything you never wanted to know about cars and why they should be on the road and not in your garage. Are you ready to Get Out N Drive?

John

I was getting down to our new music. That's fantastic.

Jason

If you guys didn't notice, we did change up our music a little bit. Very similar to what we had, but unfortunately we kept getting copyrighted. Go figure.

John

No, thank you. I'll walk to the blockbuster.

Jason

Guys, welcome to the Get Out N Drive podcast, fueled by AMD. My name is Jason. This is John. And speaking of regulations, we’re going to try and talk a little bit about some of the EPA regulations that have recently been turned back as part of the current administration in the US. And before we jump into that, John, I do want to talk a little bit about the fact that these regulations are EPA regulations, and they were put in place. Some will argue, and we're not going to get political in this episode, but some will argue that they were put in place. for the environment, obviously, Environmental Protection Agency, to help keep people safe, to help keep people healthy, to combat things like climate change and global warming and all those trigger words that tend to be a thing that we talk about these days. So do you remember back, you and I are only a few years different in age, but do you remember back like in the late 80s, early 90s, acid rain was like...

John

Oh, I remember. Yeah, oh yeah, that was amazing. It put them little circles on your car.

Jason

Yeah, like today we have what's called hard water spots. You go to the car wash and if you don't get it dried, it leaves these little spots all over the place. Well, back in the '90s, '80s and '90s, Mother Nature was doing that for us because the water in the sky was full of crap and pollution. And when it rained, it left spots. And I truly believe that's why Dodge had so many bad paint clear coat problems in the 90s. It was acid rain. I know it was.

John

No, no, it was not. I 100% know the answer, but that's okay.

Jason

I know you do. I just, I just think.

John

And it's not acid rain.

Jason

Somebody was on acid. Yeah, I know. But in, back then it was acid rain. In the 2000s, it was what, hole in the ozone or something?

John

I think they had a hole in the ozone from all them girls with the big hair hairspray from the, you know, 80s, giant 80s mall hair. That did it. That's what did it.

Jason

Yeah. And then into the 2010s, it was, you know, the Earth's temperature was increasing. Therefore, the glaciers were melting. causing more flooding and worse weather. And they called it global warming. Now, into the late teens and early 2020s, climate change seems to be the buzzword that seems to affect everybody. And we are not here, maybe we are, we are not here specifically to take sides one way or the other on whether any of this stuff is true, whether how it relates to you and me, John, and everybody that listens to us in the car industry, and more specifically, the collector car industry, and where these rules come into play. So how do you think that some of these EPA rules have affected you in your daily life?

John

They took diesel boys off the air. Thanks. I mean, I was happily watching along, cutting catalytic converters off and eliminating, you know, the blue goo all over. I just, I was happily minding my own business and then no more. Thanks. I mean, I, always had, I never owned a diesel vehicle, first of all. And I always had a problem with the DEF fluid. If people don't know what that is, a diesel exhaust fluid. comes in a box, comes in a bag, comes in a plastic container, and you pour this stuff in your container and it sprays particulate after combustion, keep the particles from coming out and black stack in the world, you know. But I don't think the carbon, no pun intended, I don't think the carbon footprint of all that plastic crap is even helped at all with the fact that, you know, what they say DEF does. I mean, am I wrong?

Jason

So, what you're saying is DEF is meant to well, the whole theory behind it is to lower tailpipe emissions.

John

Correct.

Jason

But what you're saying is, is that the carbon footprint involved in lowering tailpipe emissions from DEF is less than the carbon footprint in the freaking containers and boxes and plastics that it comes in when you buy it.

John

Oh, God, yeah. Because you take that stuff and the cardboard and then the bag and then the plastic and the cap and everything. And what do you do when you're done with that?

Jason

But John, that doesn't matter.

John

It doesn't matter.

Jason

Because all you do, hear me out, all you do is you just put it in the garbage can and then it gets recycled somewhere.

John

The magic, the magic place called Throwaway.

Jason

Yep.

John

Is that the same place that batteries and windmill blades go?

Jason

Oh yeah. It's fine. We don't worry about that. It gets recycled.

John

I'm fine with that then. Let the globe, let the whole entire globe warm up.

Jason

Yep. So cool. So next week, folks, thanks for joining us. We'll be driving EVs from here on out. We talk, no, bull. That's not what this is about. This is we're basically trying to talk about the deregulations that the current US administration has deregulated the EPA rules. And it affects a few things. So, a couple of things we're going to talk about is auto stop start. We're also going to talk about EV mandates. We're also going to talk about the cost associated potentially with the reduction in these deregulations. We're also going to talk about the reliability of vehicles, again, in theory, by getting rid of some of this crap, as John and I would like to call it. 

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Jason

So, I want to jump right in because it's a hot button topic, is auto stop start. It's been around for several years now. If you guys don't know what it is because you don't care, and you drive vehicles that are old enough that you don't have it, it was a feature put in so that when you pull up to a stoplight, a stop sign, or your vehicle stops, as long as your foot's on the brake, the engine shuts down. But everything still maintains, your air conditioner, your radio, all that stuff. And as soon as you lift your foot off the brake, the starter gets a little bit of juice from an auxiliary battery, starts your engine back up, and you can go. Yes, there's a delay. Yes, it's annoying. Most people shut it off, but it does not default in the off position. Shut your car off key. The next time you go to turn around, turn it on, it's automatically defaulted on.

John

You know the whole stupid reason behind all that.

Jason

Yes.

John

It is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.

Jason

Okay.

John

You have a monstrous. Oh, go ahead.

Jason

Explain it. Go ahead, John. I'll let you explain it. God. But the theory.

John

You want to explain it so people can hear it or listen and understand it or how I see it.

Jason

I want you to tell why it was brought on and the whole premise behind it, and then we can talk about the bullshittery afterwards.

John

All right. So, your car runs for 100% of the time, right? If you turn it off for like, I don't know, 20%, or when you're stopped, your car's not running.

Jason

Zero miles per gallon.

John

Zero miles per gallon. So, it's not emitting harmful pollutants while you're sitting in a stoplight. So that's better for the environment, right? Pull up to a stoplight, turn your car off, turn your car back on and let it go. Seems great in theory, right? Just turn it off. It wears down your starter, it wears down batteries, it wears down absolutely everything having to do with the car, because now you're using your starter 80% more than you would. Because you go on a trip and you start your car once every several hundred miles on a tank of gas or whatever if you're driving a long trip. Now, you stop and start your car every single time you touch the brake. That's dumb.

Jason

Yeah. And again, the theory behind it was that if your car is not running, it's A, not polluting, but B, you're saving fuel. So, the question then becomes, is it, do we outweigh the cost of having to replace that small little auxiliary battery every three or four years? Because apparently that seems to be what's happening. Your starter. Your starter is being used significantly more now than it was pre this option. And there's people out there, John, that will argue that a starter from new has, and I'm just going to throw a number out there. I don't know what the number is, so don't quote me on this. That a brand new starter has a predetermined number of cycles. Let's use, 1500 cycles Okay, which may equate to a hundred and fifty thousand miles So if you had to replace your starter once every hundred and fifty thousand miles, you're probably not going to complain about it wear and tear Okay, right once every 10 to 12 13 years you may have to replace a starter in your car on average Okay, so let's take that 1500 starts now your 150,000 mile or 10 or 12 year time period has now been cut drastically down because rather than only starting your car two or three or four times a day, you're doing it at every freaking stoplight.

John

Right. It turns into 200 times a day.

Jason

Right. So, you've taken those 1,500 starts or whatever that number is. And you've considered, you've cut down considerably the number of starts or life expectancy.

John

Right.

Jason

An old fellow once told me, if you've got a knife that's sharp, what's the absolute worst thing you can do with that knife? Cut something.

John

Well, yeah, because it'll dull it.

Jason

Exactly.

John

What's the worst thing you could do with anything that's new is use it.

Jason

Right? A starter, same thing. It's made to start, but every one time you start it, it reduces its life expectancy.

John

Sure.

Jason

That's my train of thought, and I'm sure that John feels the same way, and I'm sure many of you guys feel the same way. And yes, there's going to be some engineer out there who says BS to both of us, but we live in reality, folks. Starters don't last forever. They do only have so many cycles on them. And if you're, if it's shutting off and the starter is engaging at every freaking stoplight.

John

That's not going to take long for a drilling.

Jason

Just stands to reason you're going to wear it out quicker.

John

And then the engineers put it under the intake.

Jason

Oh yeah, in some vehicles, yep.

John

Thanks.

Jason

Toyota Tacoma or Toyota Tundra?

John

Yeah. Yeah, Cadillac Northstar.

Jason

I want to take that argument out of the equation just for a second, John.

John

Okay.

Jason

Let's say the wear and tear is not an issue. All right. Let's just say the wear and tear is not an issue. Let's say the MPG savings or the harmful effects to the environment It's doing its job, okay? It's saving the environment and you're saving considerable amounts of fuel. Let's say all of that is true for one second. It's damn well annoying, if anything. And I'll tell you why. Not because your car shuts off, but because when you take your foot off the brake, there is that split second that the car has to start and then kind of engage into gear again before you can start rolling forward. And what happens is you let off the brake. Instinctively, you want to touch the gas. So, you're sitting there for two or three seconds, and then all of a sudden, you've jerked on that engine. Everything's kind of jarring because nothing's engaged to its full potential. Some, again, may argue that, you know, you get used to it.

John

Now, I've never triggered one of those. What happens on a hill?

Jason

Well, again, so modern vehicles would automatically engage the parking brake while you're waiting.

John

Okay.

Jason

Electric parking brake, mind you.

John

Okay.

Jason

But yes, some vehicles do have an anti-rollback feature because it essentially would put the car in park for you.

John

Wow.

Jason

Because it's all electronic, right? So again, we talk about all these electronics. It's not just stop-start. There's a lot of other things that are going on there. Extra wear and tear. More computers.

John

I'm going to say something else, stupid. Is there, is there, because I have no idea. I mean, hell, that car I drive around is 30 years old. Is there a stop-start feature only on automatics?

Jason

Yes.

John

Okay.

Jason

Yeah. Well, I mean, it stands to reason. They don't sell manual transmissions anymore.

John

Okay.

Jason

And I don't know. If they do, very few.

John

Okay.

Jason

Your sports cars, you can't buy a pickup truck with a manual transmission anymore. Right. So, what would you have that's got a manual on it? An Austin Mini or Mini Cooper, whatever they call it.

John

Okay. Some sort of Kia Soul or something?

Jason

Some of your BMWs, maybe your low-end Kias and Hyundais. Your Chevy Cruze. Of course, Chevy doesn't make any cars anymore, so no, they don't make any. Your Mustang would have a standard transmission on it.

John

That's right, Chevrolet doesn't make any... cars. They make the Corvette. Crossovers nested. They have Corvette and they have SUV crossover things.

Jason

Yep. Starts with Chevy Trax.

John

No sedans. No sedans.

Jason

Chevy Trax is your base car now.

John

Okay. Wow. All right. Way to go.

Jason

There you go. So again, we're not talking facts here, okay? All we're talking about is our reality in the feeling of some of these things. Do I think, again, like I said, let's take the wear and tear out of the out of the equation for a moment. John, do you think for one second that for the inconvenience of having to deal with stop start, that you're saving enough fuel or saving the planet enough to warrant the extra effort and cost that goes into making that happen?

John

Wholeheartedly never. I mean, I can tell you, I haven't looked at the black and white numbers. No one showed them to me. Maybe somebody will put them in this comment section and show them to me. But what are the black and white numbers of the same vehicle prior to start and stop and with start and stop? What is the gain? I don't know.

Jason

Yeah. So, to piggyback off of that, there is a cost involved in making that feature happen. Some will say it's just electronics. Maybe you're right. But somewhere along the way, it cost GM, Ford, Stellantis, all the manufacturers out there who are using it because it was mandated to be done. It cost them engineering dollars to put that feature on there. And if we get rid of it, we're going to talk about this down the road. So, hold on to this thought. Think about it. If we get rid of that feature, in theory, should the price of the car go down? Don't answer that. We're going to kind of come back to that because that's part of what these EPA deregulations say may happen. Let's move on to the next one, John, and that is EV mandates. Do you have EV mandates in Missouri?

Announcer

Or did you?

John

I think so. I didn't have anything to do with it. Still, driving a 30-year-old car, no idea. I see them pass by me on the highway. I see them broke down in the wintertime on the side of the road, but no idea.

Jason

So, in the US, there was EV mandates put in by the previous administration that said by, I don't know what year it was, you'll have to forgive me, 2030. I believe, maybe it was 2035. Either way, that all new vehicles sold would have to be electric. So, it would not prohibit you from buying a used gas engine because after that point, they would all be used. But the mandate basically stated somewhere along those lines. And any and all governmental rebates to buy one would cease. And again, I'm speaking just from what I know from the past and somewhat here in Canada, is that in certain provinces and states, the state governments and provinces would say, I'm going to give you $4,000 in tax credit if you buy an EV. And what that was supposed to do was help lower the cost to make the EV look more attractive. Well, when they're 25% more expensive to begin with, right? I always said, I'm not against EVs. But what I'm against is you telling me that that's my only choice if I want to buy a new one. And I'm also against the fact that you're going to take away any incentive to buy a cheaper vehicle. So, I will be 100% on board with buying an EV vehicle, even in the used market down the road, if I can get similar mileage on a charge as I do with the gas. So, we're talking, if I can get 500 to 600 miles out of a tank of fuel, And I'm not just saying equal. Like, you've got to sell me on this. I need more. I need more than what my gas car can do to sell me on this. Also, it needs to be either at the same price or less money than an equivalent gas powered in order to entice me to buy it. And I don't want to be forced. I like EVs. I've driven one a couple of times. They're friggin' fast. They are torquey as all get out.

John

I haven't driven one, but I've ridden in a Tesla Plaid, and it was impressive.

Jason

Yeah. Like, don't get me wrong. The speed and performance you get out of an EV, hands down, is way-- I shouldn't say way-- is a lot better response than a gas-powered engine. My problem is I come from a gas, gasoline alley, gas power, gas smell, engine sounds. Not just burning rubber and whirring noises. I, and don't, pump that through a speaker for me either.

John

Thanks, Edelbrock.

Jason

Magnaflow.

John

Thanks, Magnaflow. I don't think I've ever laughed so hard at SEMA in my life.

Jason

That was a Mach-E, I think, that Magnaflow had that set up on, wasn't it?

John

It was.

Jason

Back in '22. So, EV mandates, as of the breakdown, as of the announcement, were gone. And they weren't in every state, from what I'm understanding. They were in certain states, and most of those states would have been states that follow California. Obviously, California, with the population that they have and the density, had stricter regulations in EPA, mostly follow their doings. A lot of other states, Maine, as small as Maine is, I think Maine's barely got a million and a half people, and they follow California emission standards. So other states were following those, making the mandates kind of crazy, but not all states had them. But as of now, apparently those mandates are supposedly gone. Again, you folks can correct me, but I think that's part of this deregulation.

John

And I, I know we talked about stop start for just a second and we talked about the EV mandates. Don't you think this is a bandaid on amputation? It's just, it's, it's not going to permanently work. I, I don't understand anything having to do with electric cars, um, because the power has to come from somewhere. I, I never understand that. People say electric cars are EVs, any of that. That stuff is zero emissions. That's not true. You know, it's zero emissions of the tailpipe. But the carbon footprint of recycling, disposing, creating, maintaining everything, an EV does not offset the EV clean energy at all to me, ever. Ever. No, because-- And I can't get over that.

Jason

Because a lot of people don't think past the purchase of the car or think up to, they only think from the purchase of the car forward. So if there was zero emissions related to the manufacturing of the car and its battery and all the plastic and the tires and all that stuff and the cost of shipping those electric motors and all that raw material across oceans and across the planet and all that stuff, even if that was net zero, I still believe that from day one, from mile zero forward with your EV, yes, there's no tailpipe emissions. Tires still wear out, which is minimal. They take a they take a specific tire because they're heavier, right? But tires wear out. The battery does not last forever. And where does that battery go when it when it depletes?

John

In the magical away place. You throw it away.

Jason

I talked about that earlier. It just goes away and gets recycled, but recycled into what?

John

Into what? So.

Jason

But that's, again, that one there, I think that the people who believe that they are better for the planet, I think they can argue from mile zero forward. I think they have an argument there. But where I don't believe they have the argument is an EV car, at minimum, takes just as much carbon footprint to build as a regular gas engine, plus the battery. Right? So, there's a lot to unfold there and unpack, but we're just dumb yokels, John. We don't know anything. We're not engineers. We can't argue that because, well, you know, we're just, we're gasoline guys. Right? So, it'd be different if you were diesel guys because every time you drive a diesel down the road and it puffs black smoke out, well, you're polluting the earth. Sure, yeah. Right. I mean, it's soot, which falls back down to the ground in which the soot came from.

Speaker 4

Right.

Jason

Oh, we can't argue that.

John

Don't tell anybody I pour all my oil back in the ground. Because that's where it came from.

Jason

If you have the right number of rocks to sand filtration, you can pour it back in there. You're fine.

John

Oh, I've read that Popular Mechanics from 1956. I know.

Jason

How to change your oil. Seriously, folks, we're like, as much as you might think that we're joking, there was an article that stated how to properly dispose of your oil back in the 50s. Literally, it was into the ground.

John

I mean, that's where, you know, old Jed, the millionaire, that's where he found it.

Jason

He found John's oil change, made him, made him millions of bucks. You discarded him.

John

He moved to California. Then he got regulated.

Jason

So, what are the results of doing these rollbacks on these regulations, John? Like, what should we see as a consumer? Should we see cleaner air? Should we not see black smoke coming out of the tailpipes of diesels? Should we not see the coal-fired power plants generating power to charge these batteries on these EVs? Will we run around with a windmill sticking off the roof of car? Where does this go? What is the benefit to deregulating? Jump in and join the Get Out N Drive podcast, What Drives Youth Initiative by supporting these organizations that support the next generation in the automotive industry. Operative Talent is committed to inspiring and empowering the next generation of automotive professionals. Learn more at operativetalent.com. The RPM Foundation safeguards the critical skills necessary to restore and preserve collector vehicles by supporting hands-on training and engaging the next generation of craftsmen and women. Learn more at rpm.foundation.

Paul

I might have some answers.

John

Yeah, what do you what do you got?

Jason

Who can help us out?

Paul

I'm reading that federal funding for the state of Illinois was $148 million from 2022 to 2026 to build EV charging stations. Also, $14.9 million in federal grant funding to support charging projects. Both of those numbers will be lost in Illinois.

John

Wow.

Paul

And 7 million in federal funding to repair or replace EV chargers. And some of the mandates that Illinois has is that all new single-family homes and multi-unit residential buildings must be constructed with EV capable parking spaces and associated power.

John

Oh.

Paul

Missouri does not have a consumer mandate for EV vehicles, but for its state agencies, it does. That 50% of state agencies fleet vehicles must be EV.

Jason

So, lead by example, I guess is what they were getting at there, I'd say.

John

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, the guy, they're trying to get their fleet vehicles back to electric, you know?

Jason

Yeah, and again, I think, you know, without causing a huge argument, which we may already have done, I think in certain cases, fleet vehicles within a municipality or a state of fair, EVs probably would do the trick, 'cause as a rule, they're not generally crossing, you know, 10,000 miles a day, they're going commuting, right? Whether it's meter reading, parking attendants or city workers, whatever it happens to be, they're not going far from home base. So if you got an EV that gives you 250 miles in a charge and you're just potting around, makes sense. that that car would suffice in that particular situation. But again, we've got to go back and talk about, you know, charging. Where is the charging energy coming from? Right.

John

That dirty, dirty, dirty coal plant.

Jason

Dirty, dirty, dirty wind.

John

Dirty, dirty, dirty wind.

Jason

Right? Like, wind is not free, folks. Solar is not free. Water is not free. Obviously, coal is certainly not free. Energy costs money.

John

Lithium is not free.

Jason

Lithium, cobalt, all plastic. It's all not free. So the whole point, I think, at least in the article or the press release that I watched with Lee Zeldin, who was the EPA minister, leader, whatever you call them down there, and the president, in theory, they were talking that by reducing or rolling back these mandates and all this stuff, doing the deregulation, was cost savings. And the number that they used was $2,400 US average savings on a new car.

John

That's it.

Jason

That's it.

John

That's kind of like peeing in the ocean.

Jason

So again, $2,400 per person, I guess, or per vehicle. A, it should be more than that. Cost of new cars today is absolutely ridiculous. But also B, will we see it?

John

I won't.

Jason

And I'll tell you why I don't think that we will. Because since COVID, which I think in 2020, I think that was kind of that over the edge when car prices, new car prices just took off. Oh, yeah. Right. I think that since then, people have been buying cars, proving to the manufacturers that they'll pay 80, 90, $100,000 plus for a pickup. That they'll pay $70,000, $80,000 for an EV. And that the cheapest car that you can buy in the US right now is still over $37,000. Wow. Where are my Cobalts, Cavaliers, Ford Focuses for 15,000 bucks? Oh, I forgot. They're back in the 90s.

John

That's why I'm invested in Chevy Ventures.

Jason

Is that like a growth venture?

John

It is a growth venture. So far we're up to three of them in our family.

Jason

Money in the bank, isn't it?

John

Oh yeah.

Jason

So earlier in the episode I asked if you thought that auto stop start was, if we got rid of it, if it was gonna save you money.

John

Okay.

Jason

According to the EPA, 2,400 bucks on every new car, you should see, which you won't, the manufacturers are not gonna relinquish that extra 2,400 bucks to you, they're gonna, They had their pocket.

John

So like I said earlier, no savings. Oh, wow. Who would have seen this completely foreseeable end?

Jason

So somebody was quoted as saying, No more climate change participation trophies. And I think what they were getting at with that was, No more virtue signaling over cars. No more, I'm going to put this dumb little feature in here that's going to save you thousands of dollars, which I don't believe stop-start saves you anything net.

John

No.

Jason

Okay, maybe you save.

John

It was another band-aid on the amputation.

Jason

Yeah.

John

Hell yeah.

Jason

Right? It might save you a tenth of a mile per gallon over a whole tank of fuel. Maybe. And even if that's being generous, what does that cost you? Pennies. For what? Just the battery you got to replace.

John

It's for the battery you got to replace and the starter you got to replace and every other damn thing and relays and fuses and everything.

Jason

Well, John, because I know that right from the beginning, anybody who listens to us who may be like-minded may feel the same way that we do. There's going to be a few people out there who see the thumbnail and see the title, who are going to watch this. They're going to be so mad by halfway through. They're not going to hear what we're about to say right now at the end of this episode anyway. Right. Is I think that the CAFE standards that have been set forward as of right now have caused several problems within the automotive industry. One, unreliable cars. And I'm not just talking used car, I'm talking unreliable new cars, which in turn follows the unreliable used car. Because if you think it's unreliable at zero mileage, it's got 100, 150, 200,000 on it when you and I are buying it and see what the problems are.

John

You think it's unreliable now, when do you drive it?

Jason

Right. The loo blocks just talk, man. So, and then at the very end of it, I think that what we need to do is rethink the whole thing. We're not trying to get better fuel economy. What we need is more reliable, and again, I know this is never gonna happen, what we need is more reliable vehicles, that last longer. Because if I was ever in a position to be able to buy a brand new car, I'm the type of guy that's probably going to keep it for a long time because of the price of it. But if it's reliable, I am going to keep that for a very long time. And when the time comes to replace it, if it was in fact a reliable vehicle, I may go buy another one. But because I am who I am, And you are who you are. We've talked about this plenty of times in different scenarios. We are the original automotive recyclers.

John

Yep.

Jason

We are doing the world a favor by keeping the old ones, albeit maybe not as fuel efficient.

John

Sure.

Jason

And maybe not as good for the environment. But I feel that that far outweighs the carbon footprint of pumping a bunch of plastic onto the frigging roads day in, day out, overpriced crap. Who's winning? I truly believe it's you with your 89 Jeep Comanche or Cherokee.

John

Oh, 89 Cherokee. I think I've outworn my carbon footprint on that vehicle.

Jason

Twice over probably at this point.

John

I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. But see, you know, because everything you're saying works into planned obsolescence.

Jason

Oh, for sure. The dealers would never sell a brand new vehicle if it was reliable.

John

There you go. It's no different than buying an iPhone. It's no different than buying a new dishwasher or a refrigerator that orders Doritos for you or anything. All that crap is going to break and you're going to get a different one. And you're going to get another one. Auto manufacturers are going to have things three years. That's how long they want you to have it. You're going to have a five-year car alone. You can keep the car three years, roll it over in the next one because you don't want to have to put tires and windshield washer fluid and wipers and maintenance and anything on these vehicles. And they'll give you another one with all the brand new giggogs and fasteners and crazy coolness. And you're going to keep up with the Joneses. That's going to happen. And they don't care about the second owner. They don't care about the third owner. They don't care about anything. It's brand new. Take the wrapper off it, take it out-of-the-box. I don't care what happens to it after three years, because the auto manufacturers are going to be selling you another one.

Jason

Yeah. Well, you know, I'm going to make this one last point, and then we're going to end the episode. But the Ford CEO, Jim Farley, has recently come out saying that we've got 6,000 bays in our dealerships that are empty of repair techs.

John

And how whose fault is that?

Jason

And how do you fix that? Right? That tells me that when I go to the Ford dealer and I need to get my Ford repaired, And they tell me it's going to be three weeks because our schedule's backed up that A, they don't have enough techs or B, they don't have proper qualified techs because most dealerships don't have an in-house transmission mechanic anymore. They farm it out to the local transmission shop or the Ford dealer across town or in the next town over that does have one or.

John

All of their mechanics are plug and play.

Jason

Parts replacers.

John

Yep, parts replacers.

Jason

Gone are the- They.

John

Plug in their little, gone are the days so you can repair it. Yep. You plug in the computer, the car tells you what's wrong with it. You take out the transmission, you put in another one, zoom, the customer goes down the road.

Jason

Yep. I had to turn a customer away the other day at my shop. I've got two licensed technicians that run in my shop. We got four bays, we're always working on something. I had to turn a customer away that day because I didn't have the information I needed to make a proper diagnosis. And they're like, well, can't you just put the part on? I'm like, I can throw a part at it. I said, but if it doesn't fix the problem that we think it is, because we weren't able to properly diagnose it, you just paid $600 for the part, 300 bucks for me to install it, your 900 bucks plus tax into something that did not fix it, who are you going to be mad at?

John

When I turn on wrenches.

Jason

I don't want that responsibility. So right to repair is another, that would be a great episode to talk about too at some point. Right to repair. You said it earlier that manufacturers don't care about us five years down the road. When we're buying that car with 100 or 150,000 miles, they don't care about us. So all the information that we need to fix those cars after they're out of warranty, they're not sharing.

John

Not to mention a lot of the newer cars, if you put a part on it and you fix the problem, the car still has to have its little **** padded and you have to help it and tell it that you fixed it.

Jason

Yep.

John

And it has to agree with you.

Jason

Right.

John

That is a big deal. Not just fixing a car, but letting the car tell you, okay, it's fixed, and all the lights go out, and it's magic. The little black box works right. Tomorrow, it doesn't.

Jason

If that last little segment is not a great segue into the next generation of car mechanics, there's plenty of jobs out there for you. You're going to be learning a lot of electronic hands-on over the mechanical hands-on because everything in a car today is electronic. So look, there's jobs out there for you if you want them. And if you're willing to put the elbow grease in to learn a trade, whether it be mechanics, auto body, you know, customization, street rods, whatever it happens to be, if you're looking to get into a trade, There's a trade out there and they are begging for you to come work for them. We also partner with the RPM Foundation and one of their big key attributes is raising money to make sure that these kids have an opportunity to learn a trade in school. So I think that it's a great idea. Maybe there's somebody out there who can figure out how to make a reliable engine that's A, good on fuel and B, reliable, but C, doesn't cost an arm and a leg to repair down the road. So we need those people getting into the trades, getting into the automotive trade, especially, to help deal with things like what we talked about here on this episode. John, I think this is great. I think it is a step in the right direction. I hope that there is some cost savings there. I hope that we do see that, but I also hope that we learn new ways to find out how to make up for the miles per gallon, the reliability, this cost savings on these outrageously priced new cars today.

John

I don't know, man. It's ridiculous. I can't even tell you the last time I tried to go look at or even investigate the price of a new car or truck. Seeing six figures, for a vehicle, I can't handle it. I absolutely can't handle it.

Jason

Well, by the sound of things, we'll all be driving slate trucks here in the very near future anyway. Oh yeah. Twenty-Five grand a pop for a bare bones basic truck, a two-seater.

John

With roll up windows.

Jason

There you go. Yeah. If you guys have any information that you wanna share with us on this topic, go ahead and leave it in the comments. If you're watching this on a platform that doesn't allow comments, head on over to our website, getoutndrive.com, go down to the very bottom of the page, the Lister hotline. Tell us what you feel. Whether we're right, wrong. Couple of idiots talking about stuff we don't know what we're talking about, shouldn't be talking about. I don't know. You could be right, this guy. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for watching. Don't forget, National Get Out N Drive Day happens on the first Sunday in October. This year, it's on October the 4th. John had to remind me. Again, head on over to our website and register. That way we can make sure we get some stickers out to you. So you can enjoy National Get Out N Drive Day. 

Jason

The Get Out N Drive podcast is always looking to support the next generation in the auto industry and hobby through our What Drives Youth initiative.

John

Our friends at AMD know that younger enthusiasts are out there building vintage cars and trucks while incorporating modern comforts. AMD restoration parts maintain that classic look needed for restomod builds.

Jason

If you are a younger enthusiast working on a build using AMD parts, we want to hear from you. If chosen, you and your build will be featured in an upcoming What Drives Youth segment on the Get Out N Drive podcast. Visit getoutanddrive.com to let us know about your build or tag us in your build posts on social media. Visit autometaldirect.com and use the code G-O-N-D for a 10% discount exclusively for our listeners for a limited time. AMD. Build for enthusiasts, buy enthusiasts.

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